Franconian Beer Message Board

Liebesbier in Bayreuth
Posted by Barry on 2016-02-26 02:17:34
That's why we like you, Mark; genuine reaction!

Anyway, yes, you're right in saying that the central question is whether the renaissance in brewing have happened without US-influence.  Most of the rest is a bit peripheral and, as you say, can be debated over on another day.  But I agree with your premise about economic development - these things didn't just happen in isolation in any country, nor did they happen in some stop/start manner.  I was just trying to sum up several hundreds (or thousands?) of years of economic change as quickly as possible - probably a big mistake!

I can't speak for the rest of the world - I'm probably not even really qualified to comment on Britain and Germany but just giving my opinion based on what I see and read, and in the context of 50 odd years of beer drinking.  What I see in Britain (and what appears to be happening in Germany) just seems so much like what I see second-hand via the www in the USA.  I've been a reasonably keen reader of US events really since I got to know people like you and Don and Fred.

Just to make sure a little bit that I'm not totally delusional, I 'googled' (awful word but there you are) 'are craft beers in UK inspired by USA'.  There are loads of articles that suggest that they are - you can read these if you have nothing else to do (!), so I'm pleased to think that I'm not going completely bonkers!

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/nov/08/craft-beer-indepedent-brewers-micro-ed-cumming
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21541887
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2011/jun/24/american-craft-beer-hippest-hops
http://www.shortlist.com/food-drink/the-rise-and-rise-of-craft-beer

All make the point that the recent splurge of UK micro's is down to 2 points: the first, the change in the way that duty is levied on beer (introduced by Gordon Brown in 2002); the second, the influence of US-craft breweries.

Is it fair to call this 'Americanisation'?  Well, maybe my use of the term is, perhaps, a little clumsy but so much of the social culture of Europe has been heavily influenced by the USA since the end of WW2 that it is hard to ignore the reality.  You mentioned some of these things yourself (Coca-Cola, McDonald's, etc.).  Don't want to get to political but these things are not ways of modernising our ancient European society but of making money for giant US industrial complex's.  We should, of course, add the major brewing concerns.  

Regarding negativity to things American: we would need a lifetime to discuss the good things that have come out of America but, unfortunately, at least a similar time to talk about the bad.  It's impossible to quantify how influential the USA is on the world, thus, it's hardly surprising that feelings about the coiuntry should be quite extreme - either way.  One of the great things about this forum (and others similar) is that it enable us all to exchange views in a civilised manner (ok, we all shoot our mouths off sometimes) and I really value the good friends that I've met through the Forum.

Not sure that I have anything more to say, so I'll shut up now - good, probably say the majority!
 
Followups:
                 Liebesbier in Bayreuth by Mark Andersen on  2016-02-26 04:46:32
                   Liebesbier in Bayreuth by Barry on  2016-02-26 04:58:09
                     Gosh! by Nick B. on  2016-02-28 06:22:01
                       Gosh! by Barry on  2016-02-28 08:23:21
                         Gosh! by Barry on  2016-02-28 11:33:01
                   Liebesbier in Bayreuth by Jason  on  2016-02-29 08:13:03
                     Liebesbier in Bayreuth by Barry on  2016-02-29 12:53:49
                       Liebesbier in Bayreuth by Andy H on  2016-02-29 13:31:32
                         Liebesbier in Bayreuth by Barry on  2016-02-29 14:08:00
                     Weekend round-up by Nick B. on  2016-03-01 01:34:29
                       Weekend round-up by Andy H on  2016-03-01 14:12:47
                         Weekend round-up by Barry on  2016-03-02 03:20:40
                         Weekend round-up by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-02 08:29:02
                           Weekend round-up by Nick B. on  2016-03-03 01:20:53
                             Weekend round-up by Barry on  2016-03-03 04:47:01
                               Weekend round-up by Nick B. on  2016-03-03 05:29:34
                               Weekend round-up by Mosquit on  2016-03-03 05:32:56
                                 Weekend round-up by Nick B. on  2016-03-03 06:57:28
                                   Weekend round-up by Mosquit on  2016-03-03 07:46:51
                                     Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with "craft" beer by Nick B. on  2016-03-03 07:53:01
                                       Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Barry on  2016-03-03 07:57:48
                                 Weekend round-up by Barry on  2016-03-03 08:04:20
                                         Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-03 10:53:25
                                           Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-03 12:11:32
                                             Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-03 23:47:07
                                   Weekend round-up by Nick B. on  2016-03-04 01:13:52
                                     Redemption Trinity by Nick B. on  2016-03-04 01:20:04
                                               Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Barry on  2016-03-04 02:53:16
                                                 Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-04 04:45:52
                                                   Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-04 04:46:53
                                                     Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-04 05:00:58
                                                       Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-04 05:59:52
                                                         Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-04 06:48:35
                                                           Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Barry on  2016-03-04 09:57:09
                                                             Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-04 11:06:51
                                                               Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Andy H on  2016-03-04 13:19:08
                             Weekend round-up -- hops by Uncle Jimbo on  2016-03-04 20:59:49
                               Weekend round-up -- hops by Nick B. on  2016-03-04 23:08:02
                                 Summit by Nick B. on  2016-03-05 02:18:24
                                                             Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-05 02:25:41
                                                               Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-05 02:28:45
                                                               Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-05 05:45:03
                                                                 Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Barry on  2016-03-05 09:28:03
                                                               Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Barry on  2016-03-05 09:42:49
                                                                 Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-06 04:03:57
                                                                   Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Andy H on  2016-03-06 09:31:18
                                   Summit by Uncle Jimbo on  2016-03-06 18:17:06
                                                                     Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-07 01:33:01
                                     Summit by Nick B. on  2016-03-07 01:33:52
                                                                   Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-07 10:38:30
                                                                     Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-07 10:41:16
                                                                       Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Andy H on  2016-03-07 11:29:37
                                                                         Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-07 11:39:24
                                                                           Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by FredW on  2016-03-07 11:43:47
                                                                         Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-07 11:48:13
                                                                             Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-07 11:53:26
                                                                           Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Andy H on  2016-03-07 13:42:06
                                                                             Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by FredW on  2016-03-07 13:55:37
                                                                               Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Barry on  2016-03-08 03:05:10
                                       Summit by Uncle Jimbo on  2016-03-08 20:48:48