Franconian Beer Message Board

Liebesbier in Bayreuth
Posted by Mark Andersen on 2016-02-25 10:00:58
Okay I'll agree to argumentative.  I just worry about my tone on internet discussions like this because I have a horrible tendency to react and respond too quickly rather than take a deep breathe, re-read, and think first.  One of the traits I've inherited from my father I think.  Anyhow appreciate the thoughtful reply.

Would all of this brewing variety, craziness, nonsense, whatever you want to call it be happening without American influence?  I think that is the main question as I see it.  No way of really knowing but I think it probably would.  Why do I think that?  Because I don't think it's really an American thing per se.  This is all fairly new to us as well.  It's not like this is American brewing culture finally being spread throughout the world.  I think the same factors that have caused this to happen in America have also happened elsewhere albeit not as soon or as quickly.  Most likely because the other places in the world already had a brewing culture in place where here it was decimated by prohibition and there was a huge vacuum to fill.  Technology, availablity of ingredients, the internet, etc. all playing a major role.  

I think back to when I started homebrewing in the early 90's.  I brewed with what was available and back then what was available were homebrewing kits from the UK and Ireland to be able to brew a Bitter, Irish Stout, English Stout or Porter, etc.  The kits from the US were just crap so we avoided them.  Hardly anyone was brewing crazy, hoppy beers or IPA's or chocolate stouts or anything of the sort because you just couldn't get the ingredients to really do it well.  But homebrewing and just brewing technology in general got better.  The internet gradually made the acquistion of exotic ingredients from all over the world super easy and boom now you have an explosion of brewing variety, micorbreweries, homebrewers all over the place and so on.

Would this have happened in the UK even if never in America first?  Yes I think eventually it would have because the technology would have been there eventually and if people can do it, are allowed to do it, and have the means to do it then eventually they will do it.  

Has the American brewing explosion had an influence on the UK, Australia, NZ, Ireland, etc.?  Of course but that is working in both directions.  It's ironic to me that I probably never would have had a cask ale at my local pub if it were not for the "craft" beer explosion that then exposed us more to other brewing cultures like the British.

So do I think it's fair to call this "Americanisation".  Not really.  I think it's forces beyond America's control and forces that would have swept over modern societies eventually with or without America and it IS eventually going to take root big time in Germany.  It has to.  Because what you have now with the traditional Franconian brewing culture that we all really love sincerely, for example, is a rapid decline.  98 breweries gone in about 10 years is really fast.  It's happening because to some extent for a lot of people the old way doesn't work anymore.  A vacuum is eventually going to be created and filled because of this.  Now hopefully this happens with more of a German spin on things rather than a British or American (i.e. Gaenstaller comes to mind) but it's coming.  Eventually I think a flood gate will open.  

As far as me being sensitive about negativity to things American.  Well yeah you make some really good points there.  Me whining about it isn't going to make it stop.  I think it's just our turn.  I was talking to a good friend of mine who has been living in Iceland now for 3 years while studying Old Norse culture and religion at the university there and he told me that it's regular occurence the he has to endure a harangue from a local about how horrible America is.  It is somewhat comforting to know that you understand how this feels being British living in Ireland.  I can see how you would be on the receiving end of it quite a bit there.  I would hope that being British and understanding what it's like you might not aim it in our direction so much (not that I think you personall do Barry but I do see a lot of the stereotyping of Americans/America from the British in general).  Whatever, I'll deal with.  Nobody has threatened me yet while travelling abroad so that's a plus and people in Germany have certainly been very good about it.

As far as America being the home of modern industrial capitalism and the Britain for colonialism ... well that might be a debate for another time over beer.  I think some people are getting let off the hook to easily there.  I think for example Britain was also on the forefront of modern industrial capitalism right along with America and perhaps even sooner and as far as colonialism ... well I'm looking straight at Spain, Portugal, France, and the Dutch just as much.  Maybe Britain perfected it, took it to the next level, etc. as did America with capitalism.

Marketing?  Okay sure I have no disagreement really with what you've said.  Although I'm still not sure that the term "craft" beer did not come from the consumers just as much as the brewers in the early days of all this in the USA.  We just didn't know what else to call it.  But that might be a light reading project for me someday.
 
 
Followups:
               Liebesbier in Bayreuth by Barry on  2016-02-26 02:17:34
                 Liebesbier in Bayreuth by Mark Andersen on  2016-02-26 04:46:32
                   Liebesbier in Bayreuth by Barry on  2016-02-26 04:58:09
                     Gosh! by Nick B. on  2016-02-28 06:22:01
                       Gosh! by Barry on  2016-02-28 08:23:21
                         Gosh! by Barry on  2016-02-28 11:33:01
                   Liebesbier in Bayreuth by Jason  on  2016-02-29 08:13:03
                     Liebesbier in Bayreuth by Barry on  2016-02-29 12:53:49
                       Liebesbier in Bayreuth by Andy H on  2016-02-29 13:31:32
                         Liebesbier in Bayreuth by Barry on  2016-02-29 14:08:00
                     Weekend round-up by Nick B. on  2016-03-01 01:34:29
                       Weekend round-up by Andy H on  2016-03-01 14:12:47
                         Weekend round-up by Barry on  2016-03-02 03:20:40
                         Weekend round-up by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-02 08:29:02
                           Weekend round-up by Nick B. on  2016-03-03 01:20:53
                             Weekend round-up by Barry on  2016-03-03 04:47:01
                               Weekend round-up by Nick B. on  2016-03-03 05:29:34
                               Weekend round-up by Mosquit on  2016-03-03 05:32:56
                                 Weekend round-up by Nick B. on  2016-03-03 06:57:28
                                   Weekend round-up by Mosquit on  2016-03-03 07:46:51
                                     Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with "craft" beer by Nick B. on  2016-03-03 07:53:01
                                       Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Barry on  2016-03-03 07:57:48
                                 Weekend round-up by Barry on  2016-03-03 08:04:20
                                         Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-03 10:53:25
                                           Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-03 12:11:32
                                             Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-03 23:47:07
                                   Weekend round-up by Nick B. on  2016-03-04 01:13:52
                                     Redemption Trinity by Nick B. on  2016-03-04 01:20:04
                                               Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Barry on  2016-03-04 02:53:16
                                                 Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-04 04:45:52
                                                   Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-04 04:46:53
                                                     Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-04 05:00:58
                                                       Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-04 05:59:52
                                                         Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-04 06:48:35
                                                           Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Barry on  2016-03-04 09:57:09
                                                             Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-04 11:06:51
                                                               Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Andy H on  2016-03-04 13:19:08
                             Weekend round-up -- hops by Uncle Jimbo on  2016-03-04 20:59:49
                               Weekend round-up -- hops by Nick B. on  2016-03-04 23:08:02
                                 Summit by Nick B. on  2016-03-05 02:18:24
                                                             Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-05 02:25:41
                                                               Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-05 02:28:45
                                                               Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-05 05:45:03
                                                                 Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Barry on  2016-03-05 09:28:03
                                                               Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Barry on  2016-03-05 09:42:49
                                                                 Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-06 04:03:57
                                                                   Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Andy H on  2016-03-06 09:31:18
                                   Summit by Uncle Jimbo on  2016-03-06 18:17:06
                                                                     Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Nick B. on  2016-03-07 01:33:01
                                     Summit by Nick B. on  2016-03-07 01:33:52
                                                                   Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-07 10:38:30
                                                                     Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-07 10:41:16
                                                                       Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Andy H on  2016-03-07 11:29:37
                                                                         Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-07 11:39:24
                                                                           Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by FredW on  2016-03-07 11:43:47
                                                                         Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-07 11:48:13
                                                                             Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Mark Andersen on  2016-03-07 11:53:26
                                                                           Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Andy H on  2016-03-07 13:42:06
                                                                             Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by FredW on  2016-03-07 13:55:37
                                                                               Weekend round-up...and what's wrong with  by Barry on  2016-03-08 03:05:10
                                       Summit by Uncle Jimbo on  2016-03-08 20:48:48